an “Asshole” and a “Dick”… probably a homer cheater too.
I didn’t initially have a problem with all of this until NGTW started whining about how we didn’t have enough people (Even though we did). So I proceeded to mention that it didn’t really matter because NGTW had already forfeited because they didn’t have two refs. In fact no one reffed 2nd base of the Superbad/Kicktease game until someone guy from NGTW sauntered out on the field with a little over an inning to go.
Yet armed with this info Tyrus Gordon WAKA Overlord, decided the best course of action would be to make me a humble pie out of “You don’t need two refs. You only need one. The rules say the game only needs three refs, your team provided two and we had one” and then he topped it off with a little “Don’t be a Dick” and a sprinkle of “You’re an Asshole”
Well let’s check the rule book that Ty decided to wave in my face last night “See! It says three”
WAKA Rules –
3.01 Games must be officiated by at least one WAKA participant, the Head Referee. When available at least two participants referee each game: a Head Referee, and a First Base Referee. The Head Referee governs all game play and issues all final rulings, and has final authority on equipment issues. Other Referees may assist these officials when available.
Meh. Not really clear. Since it say’s at least two. Nothing about three. But it does go on to further say.
3.05 Referees will be designated and furnished for games as provided for by the division. A division may schedule and designate teams to provide referees. A team failing to provide sufficient referees in accordance with the division schedule will result in a "paper" forfeit in the team's record which will count toward its total number of forfeits. This paper forfeit does not count as a loss.
I guess one is “sufficient” for our division. However I find it silly that per Ty’s claims each team can actually provide only one ref and hope that the other team produces the two other ref’s.
While I couldn’t actually find anything from Ty or WAKA where it says each team must have TWO refs (Maybe one of the blogs crack amateur sleuths can help me out).
Email from Tyrus Gordon Feb 12th, 2009-
“If your team does not provide refs or has some other infraction, your team may have a penalty or paper forfeit. This is counted seperately in the standings so this does not count as a game played so your team does still play a 10 game season. It is simply a deduction of -0.75 points in the standings.”
Why would you say “refs”? and not “at least one ref” if that is really all you need?
Because if each team does need two refs and I'm splitting hairs about there only being one. Then what does it matter if we don't follow the rules exactly and play with 3 girls and 4 guys or 4 girls and 4 guys?
So in closing. Don’t question Tyrus or you are a “dick” and an “asshole”. Not very nice names. Hell, Flo was there, all Tyrus had to do was ask him and Flo could of have said “his name is Bito”
21 comments:
I totally agree. Either go by the rules in which you only have 1 ref, the head ref and then no one will show up to ref or have 2 refs for each team or forfeit. Besides wtf is .75 from the standings?! Also last night Jen got hit with the ball not directly but it did make contact with her head. In which she was supposed to be safe. According to Ty's log 10.04, Hitting a runner’s neck or head with the ball is not allowed, except when the runner is sliding. Any runner hit in the neck or head is safe, and advances to the base they were running toward when the ball hits the runner. If the runner intentionally uses the head or neck to block the ball, and is so called by the Referee, the runner is out. But after the home plate ref overuled a call at 1st base, Ty used his WAKA mind trick and said it hit her shoulder(BTW the shoulder is very close to the neck and in a forward motion the ball will tend to push froward ergo hitting or contacting the head...Lt Smilydrunk log) and she should be out. After which the mind trick worked and the overule was changed. Look if ya make a call that's what the call should stand. If ya make a mistake, oh well, get drunk and try again on the next call. Don't let other players change your call. Anyways pretty sad that kickball has to be so competitive and correct. Next year let's play for money then I won't mind all the rules and some changed calls.
As for the ref rule, I would have to agree. Either make each team supply two refs or only require 1 per team.
On the call where Jen was called out then safe then out, I think the right call was made. I was reffing 1st base and did not get a clear view of exactly where the ball hit Jen. The home plate umpire thought the rule was shoulders and above and thus called her safe. When told it was actually neck or head, he changed his call and said she ws out. It was close but I thought it hit her in the shoulder and then ricocheted and hit her in the head. This in my view would be a legal throw since it hit her shoulder first. Maybe I misunderstand the rule myself but I think the right call was made in the end. The call was changed becasue of a misinterpretation of the rules, not a jedi mind trick. lol
To me Ty's job in terms of reffing should be for guidance and to resolve disputes when asked for. Problem is when Ty is playing in the game, he tends to think his opinion/call matters. Ty, you're a player in a game and not a referee. If you want to ref every call in any game, then don't play for a team. Ty should absolutely never overrule any call when he's playing in the game. That's complete bullshit. If that ever happens when I'm reffing a game Ty is playing in, I will leave the field immediately. If Ty can play and ref at the same time, my services shouldn't be needed.
In regards to the shoulder/head thing, it's totally a judgment call. I try not to ever be gender biased so if I think it hit her in the shoulder first, she's out regardless if it knocked to the ground and now she can't get up. However, it probably needs to hit somewhere on the outside of the shoulder rather than the top, which is very close to the head.
In regards to the 2 ref thing, to be honest I don't understand what's so tough about each team supplying two refs and somebody reffing at home assuming head ref duties. I've never heard of only 3 refs being needed. Shit in Kickball Society, they only have one ref.
I was always under the assumption that if you don't provide 2 refs, your team got a paper forfeit. You would think that the Rep. to WAKA could manage to get his team to supply referees to the game that they are supposed to, especially now that they start at 7.
We reffed a 8pm game with NGtW after we played them at 7 the team walked off and left us the do refs...all 4!! It's bs that they feel they don't have to ref.
And another thing, what is with having two people at one base, one calls safe the other out!?! WTF!!! No reffing by committee!!!!
hey Bull... we haven't played NGtW. haha. who are you really talking about?
and yes... reffing by committee needs to stop.
Hey Flo thats fine. It's just an out and it's just kickball. No problem. It looked from my view that the ball did hit her in the high part of the shoulder and close to the head and Jen did say the ball hit her in the head. I don't have a problem with a call being called, it's just when the call is made and then the head ref overules I figure that's that. I don't expect a discussion after the call then overturn the overule by the haed judge, that's mostly what I was saying. I am just here for the beer, fun and friendship...and if we all decide for next year...the money...lol, just jokin. And about the ref situation I agree with the moral majority...Let the force be with us ... always...lol.
Hey I just thought we were all yelling at NGtW!! I'd rather not say who it really was lol
Smiley - I disagree, if the incorrect call was made the correct call should be made to overturn it. I think you are bitter about this b/c it affected your team. If a ball hits someone's shoulder and then hits them in the head they are not safe so I think I would agree with Ty on that. Like you said its only kickball, get drunk and get over it.
I do agree that Ty should not be involved in making calls he should only be letting people know what the rule is if they are unaware and thats it...
Wow, Thanks for bringing this up Bito. I haven't seen the blog in a long time but someone forwarded this post to me. My favorite part is when you actually quote the email that I sent out when I said that if a team doesn't provide ref's they still play their game and the game counts but the team is penalized in the standings with a paper forfeit. So either way Your Mom lost their game. There is no scenario where Your Mom gets an automatic win in this game. So whether NGTW gets a paper forfeit or not, Bito still dropped the ball which resulted in NGTW's rally to win the game.
Yes we want 2 refs from each team but I have never penalized a team for only having 1 ref if I had good reason to believe they had another on the way. I had players on the way who were stuck in traffic so the game started without a 2nd base ref but it was filled once the other ref arrived. I've penalized teams in the past (Balls N Dolls) for not providing any refs at all but have left teams alone (last season it was actually Your Mom) who only had one player there to ref. So this is consistent with how I've always treated any team in the division.
My pointing out the ref rule to Bito was to prove to him that despite his reaction that the sky was falling, kickball could indeed be played with 3 referees.
A game, by rule could be played with 1 ref (in practicality only if that ref is really good) but 2 is recommended. Three makes it easier (that's what they have for the championship game at the Founders Cup) but 4 makes it even easier so refs only have to pay attention to their own base.
Bito seemed to take the stance that having only 3 refs was a doomsday scenario and the world was going to end and we were all going to die because there was no ref on second base.
As far as the girl getting hit in the shoulder/head. On that play the first base ref called her out for the ball hitting her in the shoulder, the home plate ref called her safe for the ball hitting her in the head. From my vantage point it looked like it hit her in the shoulder so I asked the refs to confer. Like any good captain should do.
I was about to just walk away and accept the home plate ref's call when he asked me to clarify the rule. He thought the rule was shoulder or above, which its not and that's why he overturned his own call.
I have never overruled a ref in a game I was playing in. I will argue a call like any other captain would and I would try to clarify the rule so the refs know the rule (again, like any good captain) but I don't ever overturn any calls in games I'm in.
Actually, ask some of the veteran player on my team. I tend to not argue a lot of calls that go against us because I am the rep and I would rather yield to refs calls. If anything, that's been a frustration of some of my players that I haven't argued more calls for us. Its kickball.
Oh and sorry you feel that way about me Bito. Perhaps you should send a complaint to complaints@youstilldroppedtheballandcausedyourteamtolose.com
So what is the one thing people ask you when you tell them that you play kickball? Kickball, you mean the game w/the big, red ball? It is big and it did indeed hit both the top of my shoulder and the back of my head AT THE SAME TIME. There wasn't any ricocheting going on. I find it supremely interesting that the guy who hit me felt the need to apologize for pegging me so hard (which was a nice gesture that some wouldn't make). Pretty sure he knows where it hit me or he wouldn't have felt so bad. As far as the ref issue goes I do find it interesting that rules seem to change at times but I'm not going to pretend to be well read on the rules either. Like I said that night...it's just kickball.
This post and it's responses are golden!
At the end of the day...we are playing kickball...
wow
Nate. I am not bitter. It takes the fun out of kb when everyone argues over a call. BTW in baseball when the call is overturned by the head ump, that's that. No disscussion. In football when a call is made then overturned by a challenge that's that. No disscussion. So when a head ref makes a decision it should be ...that's that.No disscussion. But I really care less bout it. We lost, I got drunk and over it...but I never get bitter...I like kb and hope we all just can get along.
Oh and here's something to back up what me and Jenn stated...according to WAKA rules (since that seems the topic as of late) ... 10.04 Hitting a runner’s neck or head with the ball is not allowed, except when the runner is sliding. Any runner
hit in the neck or head is safe, and advances to the base they were running toward when the ball hits the runner.
If the runner intentionally uses the head or neck to block the ball, and is so called by the Referee, the runner is
out.
It doesnt say ... a judgement call... Neck or head can not be hit. Definition for hit ...to come against with an impact or collision, as a missile, a flying fragment, a falling body, or the like: The car hit the tree.
Col Jessup: Ever played a real sports with referees, son?
Col Jessup: Ever served as a referee for a game other than kickball?
Col Jessup: Ever put your safety in another
man's hands, and his in yours?
Col Jessup: We follow rules, son.
Otherwise people get hurt.
Col Jessup: It's that simple. Are we clear?
Col Jessup: Are we clear?
lol to Col Jessup lines. Great movie.
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