Last nights game between TBN and the Jammers brought back up one of the most controversial calls in NFL history.
No catch. Rams win. Haha.
In all seriousness if it is a catch its 1st and 10 at the 25 and the Bucs have scored 6 pts vs the Rams defense up to that point and there are 45 seconds left down by 5. Chance they get a TD to win it? Maybe. Probably not though.
So the play in the kickball game last night that brought this back up was in the bottom of the 6th inning with the score tied at 2. There was 1 out with Frank on 3rd base. Steph (not Lifshin) was up to kick and bunted towards 3rd base. E-Flo was reffing the game next to us and yelled out "FOUL" so Steph and others on the Jammers stopped what they were doing thinking Souder called the ball foul. Once the Jammers figured out that the ball was actually fair their 3rd baseman ran up and tagged out Steph. It was argued she would have kept running and gotten to 1st base if she hadnt heard E-Flo yell out foul. When you have a runner on 3rd base and a girl bunts you will almost never try and throw her out at first in order to keep the run from scoring. Especially in a close game. TBN asked if she could re-kick and the Jammers thought she should be out. Souder allowed her to re-kick and the run ended up scoring on that play since the kick went to the 1st base side. Jammers went 1-2-3 in the next inning and TBN won 3-2.
I just wanted to get others opinions on how you would call that play? Is she out or would you have the play re-played? I personally thought it was the right thing to do to have her re-kick.
I enjoyed playing the Jammers and its too bad that this happened in a good game.
26 comments:
Way to place the blame on me NateDawg...Hahah. Just kidding, but not really.
Souder got the call right.
If it had happened to a Jammer girl instead of a Beer Nut girl... Ruben would have lost his shit over it saying she deserved a re-kick. That's the best way to judge if the ruling was correct. Put yourself in the other team's shoes.
Having the fields close together might be more social AND eliminates the outfield over-lapping, but it does cause interference by foul balls and apparently foul calls.
Personally I'd rather deal with the rare chance of what happened last night than see two outfielders from different games collide because the fields overlap. Can you imagine what would happen if Deeks kicked a homerun on the Jammers because their center fielder ran into someone from another game?
Pandemonium.
If I'm going to blame anyone its Johnny for setting up the fields like that...or Frank for ever suggesting a field setup like that. lol.
I agree on field set up Chan...
You agree with it after you blamed Frank for it. haha
GIANTS!
I think it was impressive that everyone heard and understood EFlo yell "foul" because he yelled it in Mandarin.
Chan - I wanted to blame Frank for something. haha.
MJ - Rosetta Stone, Mandarin Edition is paying off.
Top of the lineup was due up in the bottom of the 7th anyways. Nate walkoff pt duex.
I blame Tony...he doesn't get nailed at 2nd, he probably scores. Jacob!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Had to update my pic ----->
You Gwai Lo are sooooooo racist...Ni hao ma.
I second the field setup. Put them back with overlapping outfields.
first of all nate, get your facts straight. i shook everyone's hand but yours and Tara. Tara because I thought it was funny. You because a REF/player I hold to a higher standard. As a ref/player, last night you were the HYPOCRISY of those two terms. Maybe you are okay with making the Shockers rekick after they munt but its okay when you do it but I don't have to be. And I don't have to shake your hand because you are okay sitting on "do as I say, not as I do." That’s garbage and you know it.
Due recall I went over to my bench, grabbed the belt and was FIRST in line to hand it over and congratulate. I was as a pissed as you say, I would not of personally handed you the belt AND been the first person in line to do so. But way to make a blanket statement and take the easy road and throw me under the bus because I am competitive out in the open and you want to keep hiding under your theme outfit of “fun”, oh wait, you did not wear one. Don’t worry nate, we still think you are “fun.” Sleep tight kido.
Souder did make the right call. She was out. It absolutely sucks for her. But I’ve seen that happen before. Guys lose count of foul balls, don’t hear the ref, no do over. Ladies, I have seen kick and stand there because they personally think it’s foul and get tagged out, no do over. Eflo yelling that loud and confusing her absolutely sucks and it lends to the new field set up BUT the ball was absolutely in play as to where she kicked it and she should have run it out, period.
And yes Chandler, I lost my shit because I know for a fact, if it were the other way around, our player would have been out. That’s a fact. And it’s bullshit. You know that. You are on a competitive team, just not on Thursdays.
This call was a myriad or terrible reffing I have seen against my team. Last week we had a ref tell us, “well the leading off isn’t blatant so I am not going to call it.” Or our playing seeing a foul ball in the outfield only to have it called fair, which is fine but then the ref moving the cone to accommodate the initial bad call going forward was unreal bullshit.
i will give it to our last two opponents, they played us tourney mode and we went in laissez faire. we lost. i have no problem with that. i knew i really put the belt on the line playing random and a theme. that's on me. but clearly there were some players who know a lot better and is are even of stature in the league to call other players and teams on how they play, and they did everything they speak out against.
I had a higher expectation than that.
Even posting about the incident is a work. The easy "hey remember how awful the ToeJammers are, remember they are wrong no matter what."
Garbage.
Rob... Nate agreed with how we had it last night.
So you're not "seconding" anything. You're firsting it. And fisting it.
Ruben, me referring to you losing shit was a hypothetical. I didn't actually see you get upset yesterday.
That being said... ToeJammers are always wrong!!!! Woop woop!
Muahahahah The Butterfly Effect of the Frank layout!
Rubs, you are correct you didnt high five me and the person in front of me (and possibly the person in front of them) which may have been Tara so sorry for my assumption but it did not look like you were high fiving anyone on our team and when I brought it up to our team no one told me anything to the contrary. I did not ref the Shockers game so I dont know what you are talking about there. Also did not know anything about you giving our team cupcakes.
As for my first "kick" I wouldnt have agrued at all if I was asked back to the plate for bunting. I even told that to Matt and Tony. It was pretty boarderline in my opinion. I've seen worse get called a hit before. But I'm a hypocrit so what do I know.
You can say bullshit if you want but I would have agrued for your girl to re-kick if the tables were turned. But once again I am a hypocrit so what do I know.
Please hold me to a lower standard. Thank you.
For the record, I didn't get a high five, Rubs. But i did get a cupcake. Preesh.
Regardless of that play, Jammers, you didn't score many runs. And your lineup didn't seem random. And you were averaging like 7-8 runs a game before that.
So it may be shitty to lose on that call, but you scored 2 runs on offense.
Also, it's not like we're a high powered offense, but we still had a chance to bat in the bottom of the inning. A lot of what ifs...
Maybe it's good the belt is back with the Beer Nuts. James and Crystal are going to fix it up and make it look pretty again for the next 5 years of rivalry.
I think Nate munted, I think Ruben munted. But it's Souder's call. If I was pitching to your girl, I would have let her re-kick.
Just my two pennies.
*kicking lineup...not fielding
MJ, i didn't high you bub because I gave you belt. your hands were full!
and i did munt a double to match the double kick in the first inning.
and we did do random. love ya Hess but your not our usual clean up kicker haha and we literally picked positions out of the hat every inning.
anywho, im glad the belt is getting a facelift. it needs it.
ps - the cupcake fight i was involved in afterwards has me sneezing frosting all day today.
pps - i just found frosting in my ear
i'm not denying your random fielding assignments...didn't know you did random kicking, tho.
BK popped up on a bouncy, Tony got nailed at 2nd on a bad turn, one of your players played with golf bag the entire game...many reasons why you lost, not just that play.
We played really well, you guys squandered chances on offense. Recipe for a TBN victory.
i just realized that this was the perfect opportunity to use the whole "not impressed" thing.
now i am just upset with myself. that would have been the perfect joke.
dammit.
do over?
haha well since Rubs already gave his "delicate" response since the last time I refreshed my browser, I'm keeping my commentary and adding my update to the bottom:
I was standing somewhere in the outfield trying to adjust myself in a little tennis skirt when this re-do call was made, so I didn't really get to hear TBN's argument for it at the time. But when we were over at Doc Nance with the field set-up similar to last night (and tourney when the fields were even closer together) I don't recall people getting a re-do because someone heard the wrong call. What if some arbitrary player in the game or on the sidelines had shouted "Foul Ball!" instead and the kicker decided to listen to them and stop running?
I think people are going to run into problems hearing the correct call for various reasons...players on the opposing teams shouting "foul" or "out" to lobby to their advantage, teams blasting music on the sidelines, or even a soft-spoken ref that doesn't assert themselves while trying to make a call. It's part of the game and we've just lived with it. Many of the more experienced girls on our team (and other veteran teams) know to either listen for OUR refs voice only, or instinctively to just put their head down and run out a bunt and wait till after they reach 1st base, or for their base coach to relay the info to go back and re-kick. As for last night, Steph (not Lifshin) was probably not that experienced, and just assumed she heard our ref make the call (as did the rest of both teams, apparently).
But to spin the "shoe on the other foot" scenario, what if in that same situation last night, our fielder stopped making an attempt on the ball because he heard "foul ball" as well, but the girl continued to sprint down to first base? I highly doubt the ref would make the girl go back and re-kick because the fielder stopped. And yes, everyone knows Ruben would have probably argued for that, but everyone knows that it wouldn't have been granted.
It sucks Souder had to be put in that situation to make a judgment call like that, because I think he's a great ref regardless. But I think it should have been chalked up to inexperienced base running, and they learn for the next time. And if her base coach was even telling her it was called foul, then it's the base coach's fault for not watching our ref while he was NOT making the "foul" call in that situation.
But hey what can you expect, it wasn't tourney time...it was a dress-up theme game where our team played random, celebrated a teammates birthday, and just went out to have a good time. But it still sucks to have a"re-do" affect the outcome of the game.
@MJ: our defense (non-random) averages less than 3 runs a game so, yes we def struggled on offense, but if that 3rd run doesn't score on the re-do we still don't lose.
Perfect storm on her kick. She stopped, she is inexperienced. She should have kept running. I was 1b coach, and I heard foul, she stopped.
Take for instance Ali...Ali runs until you physically stop her to tell her it's foul.
This is nothing compared to the shenanigans that evil genius Frank pulled on us. Under the guise of a "friendly" game, we agreed to backwards base running. That brilliant bastard realized we were too stupid/drunk/stupid to figure it out and spent the game running to first then falling over trying to get to third. Well played, dick.
Ok, I'm a little bit not sober so I'll enter the fray and explain my reasoning.
When the play happened, everybody stopped. Steph(not Lifshin) and the Jammers defensive players both just kind of stood there for a second. Not until someone from the Jammer sideline yelled "tag her" did anything happen. In the midst of all the confusion, and I'll admit, I was confused too, I decided to treat it like an inadvertent whistle in football or like, for example, a ball from the other field had come into play. Everything resets and goes again. She stopped running because she heard a foul call and there was no immediate defensive play for the same reason. A mistake happened and there was a reset. To flip the situation, I could have called the Jammer girl out (I'm sorry I don't remember her name) when Christian cut off Faz, who was playing catching, when he (Christian) was running to be the caddy to first base. But I didn't, I gave her a re-kick. I wasn't trying to screw anyone, I was trying to keep the game fair. If you have an issue with that file a formal complaint.
Good Stuff Sounder.
I understand all that. No doubt. But the glaring detail being left out is your initial call was she was out.
There are countless examples of this whether it's batters losing count at the plate. Base runners not hearing fair or foul and getting caught off the bag and the resulting call being outs. There are no do overs.
MJ said it best. It was an inexperienced player who got caught up in the worst possible scenario and was given an unprecedented "do over." Do I feel bad for that chick? Hell ya. That sucks big time. But how did we all learn to run it out? Because at one time or another we all got hosed in a similar way. And to MJ's counterpoint had it been Ali, the play would have went on with a play on her or at first base. SO what do we call this? Newb rule #1, if they are uncertain, it's a do over? Maybe we can vote this in at the next captain's meeting along with pitching to your own team and boy/girl pitching combinations.
Rules is Rules but we did change the pitching rule mid season, might as well add in the Newb Do Over addendum.
Bye for now.
What we learned.
ToeJammers are always wrong.
Nate is the new Ty.
MJ did not get sick from cupcakes.
Souder will prolly quit reffing.
The do over chick needs a hug.
And there are no fun teams in this league.
back to tactical shifting reports.
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